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On this dead files special investigation...
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Amy and I are investigating the
famous Lizzie Borden house.
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(Amy) This is different for me.
(Door creaks)
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I don't like this.
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Usually, I don't know anything about
a location before I get there.
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This would be where the father died.
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No one knows what really
went down inside that house.
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Uh, fighting, really pounding on her.
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Just really nasty.
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(Steve) And a hundred years later, this
house still haunts people that visit here.
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I don't know what I'm dealing with.
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I saw this black mass. I was scared.
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There's something down there.
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My name is Amy Allan.
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(Bell tolls)
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A lot of dead people are here.
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I see dead people.
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This is not good.
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I speak to dead people...
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He is very pissed off.
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And they speak to me...
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The house is angry.
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But there's only one way to
know if my findings are real.
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He's killed people.
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I rely on my partner.
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I'm Steve Dischiavi. I'm a retired
New York City homicide Detective...
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He got shot at his house?
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And I know every person,
every house has secrets.
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Aren't you terrified being here?
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It's my job to reveal them.
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That sounds like something
out of The Exorcist.
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But Steve and I never speak...
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We never communicate
during an investigation...
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Until the very end...
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It's bad.
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When we uncover if it's
safe for you to stay...
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I'd like some answers.
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Or time to get out.
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(Bell tolls)
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(Bell tolls)
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(Amy) Steve and I conduct our
investigations separately.
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And we never know about each other's
findings until the very end.
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It's his job to find out about
the history of the locations.
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And to interview witnesses to
see if there's any connections,
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between his findings and my experiences.
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I'm headed to Fall River, Massachusetts.
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A small town that was known for something
that happened over a hundred years ago.
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This place is where Lizzie Borden was
accused of killing her parents with an axe.
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I'm meeting with a woman
named Lee-Ann Wilbur.
50
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She bought the Borden house,
where the murders took place,
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and turned into a bed and breakfast.
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Now Lee-Ann and her guests are seeing
and hearing things they can't explain.
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We're here to see if we can
figure out what's going on.
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I'm kind of worried.
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It's so old, and people have
been running through it
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and mucking around in there for...
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A long time.
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Before I enter a location, I place
myself into a meditative state.
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It allows me to have a clear...
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And complete connection with the dead.
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(Creaking)
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(Matt) Even though the story
of Lizzie Borden is famous,
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most people have no idea
what Lizzie looks like.
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Neither does Amy.
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So just like any other location,
it's important that I remove,
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or hide any old photographs that
may influence Amy during her walk.
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(Click)
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(Door creaks)
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( Children, voices echoing)
Lizzie Borden took an axe...
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Gave her mother 40 whacks...
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She tries to make them go crazy.
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She just is, like, wants
to just be around...
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And make us nuts.
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(Ticking)
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Can she cause people to see things here?
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What sort of things?
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Hallucinations.
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I mean, she's very disturbed.
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Really, really, really disturbed.
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My head hurts.
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She's crawling through the walls.
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(Bell tolling)
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(Siren wailing in distance)
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(Door creaks)
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So this is the famous Lizzie Borden house.
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Yes, it is.
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So, Lee-Ann, what kind of
experiences have you had here?
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Let me show you.
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Well, this bedroom is
where I used to sleep.
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I had come up to bed one evening,
and I come up the stairs.
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I come into the room, and as
soon as I hit the doorway...
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It felt like, um, sickness.
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It just... very, very hard to breathe.
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As soon as I lay down, it
felt like somebody sat...
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The pressure increased. It felt
like somebody was sitting on me.
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(Wind gusting)
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Mm, this person...
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Is crazy.
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Mental, mental.
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- This is a woman?
- Yeah. Mm hmm, this is a woman.
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(Chuckles nervously)
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- What's wrong?
- (Singsongy) I don't like it in here.
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Why?
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Um, because...
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I'm being touched.
106
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And that she's over. She's,
like, seeping out of the...
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Ceiling.
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She makes me sick.
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Physically sick.
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Why does she?
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I think it's her energy.
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Because her energy is... crazy energy.
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Okay.
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So it's, like, really hyper...
and, like, intense.
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I hate it in here.
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And this is the room where
Mrs. Borden's body was discovered.
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She had come up here to tidy up the room.
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She was up here making up the bed when
her attacker came in and murdered her.
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(Amy) What a strange, strange, strange...
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Place, this is.
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(Whispers) Oh, God.
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(Normal voice) I don't
like that crazy lady.
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What's wrong?
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Uh, she's...
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(Grunts)
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I don't know. I feel scared of her.
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- Why?
- I don't know.
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- What's she gonna...
- Because she's [Bleep] crazy.
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Well, what could she do?
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What do you need to be scared of?
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Her emotions make me...
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Feel funny inside.
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And, like, I feel like she knows
I'm here now or something.
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(Chuckling)
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I feel weird.
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Like she growls. She's, like, growling.
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Right now?
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Uh-huh. Like, she's like,
over there, and I...
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But I hear here and so, like, she's
like, breathing and growling.
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She's like... (Breathing
heavily and growling)
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Like that. Like...
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Drooling.
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And it was also in this room that I had my
most disturbing experience in the house.
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I was up here one morning,
also making up the bed,
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and as I leaned over the end of the bed
here, it got very hard for me to breathe.
146
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The feeling I had when I pushed myself up
was it felt like somebody... (Slaps hand)
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Hit me in the chest.
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It was hard enough to knock
the breath out of me,
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and I started falling to the floor.
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And as soon as I did, I was just...
I was crying.
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I was sobbing before I even hit the floor.
152
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And my... the feeling I had was
just overwhelming sadness.
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Just so much of it, I was...
I was crying uncontrollably.
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Almost paralyzed.
155
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I stayed there for a few minutes before
crawling out of the room to the telephone
156
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and calling one of my employees
to come in and help me.
157
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I mean, I think that would've scared the
hell out of me if that happened to me.
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I left abruptly. I slept in my car.
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I didn't come back into the
house till the next day.
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What'd you wanna show me down here?
161
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Well, this past August, I had
an investigative group here.
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They left abruptly, around
2:30 in the morning.
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And they left out through the
bulkhead here, through the basement.
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After they left, I came into the house,
shut the house down, I went to bed.
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The next morning, around
11:00 A.M., I came out.
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I passed the bulkhead door,
and this is what I found.
167
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(Buzzing)
168
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- Are those flies?
- Yes, they are.
169
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(Buzzing continues)
170
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(Buzzing)
171
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- That's a lot of flies.
- There were hundreds of them.
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So, Lee-Ann, did this ever happen before?
173
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No.
174
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- Was there anything dead?
- No, not at all.
175
00:12:00,928 --> 00:12:04,598
- And it was just in this one spot?
- Exactly in this one spot.
176
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- Did they ever come back?
- No, they did not.
177
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And there's no explanation
that you can think of?
178
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Nothing we could come up with.
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(Buzzing continues)
180
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Oh, so this would be the couch.
181
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Or...
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One that, I guess, looks like
it, where the father died.
183
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We are standing in the sitting room,
where Mr. Borden was actually found.
184
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His body was found here on the
morning of August 4th, 1892.
185
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He had been hit ten times to the face
with what was believed to be a hatchet.
186
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Lee-Ann, how can Amy and I help you?
187
00:13:11,708 --> 00:13:13,830
Well, I don't know what I'm dealing with.
188
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I'm hoping that the two of you can
help bring some understanding
189
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to some of the events that have
happened over the last few years
190
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to both my staff and my guests.
191
00:13:28,231 --> 00:13:30,282
I need to move this couch.
192
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How? Like, away from the wall?
193
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(Amy grunts)
194
00:13:33,616 --> 00:13:36,556
- That way.
- Okay.
195
00:13:37,916 --> 00:13:42,075
(Grunts) Mm. Don't wanna tear anything.
196
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Oh.
197
00:13:45,319 --> 00:13:48,259
(Speaks indistinctly)
198
00:13:48,753 --> 00:13:51,753
(Sofa scraping floor)
199
00:13:56,623 --> 00:14:00,583
There's a Ouija Board under here.
200
00:14:00,783 --> 00:14:03,543
That's not good.
201
00:14:06,294 --> 00:14:10,447
Occasionally, I'll see Ouija
Boards at people's homes,
202
00:14:10,445 --> 00:14:13,264
and I get a little concerned.
203
00:14:13,263 --> 00:14:18,603
Because I think that it can
open doors to the dead.
204
00:14:19,571 --> 00:14:25,471
When I came across this Ouija
Board, it had a very strong vibe.
205
00:14:28,565 --> 00:14:32,204
Why did you want to move the sofa?
206
00:14:32,203 --> 00:14:33,603
Um...
207
00:14:33,603 --> 00:14:37,023
The area was bothering me.
208
00:14:40,939 --> 00:14:45,427
(Steve) Lee-Ann bought this place to
attract people with morbid curiosities.
209
00:14:45,425 --> 00:14:47,334
But I think she got more
than she bargained for,
210
00:14:47,334 --> 00:14:51,078
because a lot of her guests are
terrified by their experiences.
211
00:14:51,077 --> 00:14:54,479
Robin and her niece Miranda
are just two of them.
212
00:14:54,477 --> 00:14:55,812
So, Robin, what happened?
213
00:14:55,812 --> 00:14:59,414
We decided to spend the night. We
stood up to about 12:00, 1:00.
214
00:14:59,413 --> 00:15:01,994
We saw shadows a few times.
215
00:15:01,993 --> 00:15:03,180
Tall shadow.
216
00:15:03,181 --> 00:15:05,187
It actually goes into The Master Bedroom,
217
00:15:05,186 --> 00:15:08,536
and once it gets over the
threshold, I no longer see it.
218
00:15:08,535 --> 00:15:11,617
- Which had startled me.
- How'd you feel?
219
00:15:11,616 --> 00:15:17,516
I was just kind of shocked because I
didn't know what was gonna happen.
220
00:15:28,351 --> 00:15:30,099
Do you see anybody?
221
00:15:30,099 --> 00:15:32,619
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
222
00:15:33,643 --> 00:15:36,456
Well, there's a man there who's...
223
00:15:36,455 --> 00:15:39,515
Can you describe him?
224
00:15:40,147 --> 00:15:43,627
Well, he looks pretty tall.
225
00:15:49,156 --> 00:15:52,769
I don't think he likes women very much.
226
00:15:52,768 --> 00:15:55,168
Not at all.
227
00:15:55,517 --> 00:15:58,852
(Steve) What kind of a figure was it? Did
it look like something in particular?
228
00:15:58,851 --> 00:16:03,303
Actually the shape of a person,
but it was a tall shadow.
229
00:16:03,301 --> 00:16:05,424
Let me ask you this. Would
you stay here by yourself?
230
00:16:05,423 --> 00:16:07,223
No.
231
00:16:39,132 --> 00:16:42,397
Lot of fighting. A lot of fighting.
232
00:16:42,395 --> 00:16:43,997
(Sighs)
233
00:16:43,997 --> 00:16:46,273
- Who's fighting?
- (Whispers) Man.
234
00:16:46,273 --> 00:16:51,005
(Normal voice) Like, I wish I could
say, like, how much stress...
235
00:16:51,003 --> 00:16:52,246
I'm feeling right now.
236
00:16:52,246 --> 00:16:53,971
(Whispers) Like it's like...
237
00:16:53,971 --> 00:16:56,071
[Bleep].
238
00:16:56,305 --> 00:16:58,917
(Breathes deeply)
239
00:16:58,917 --> 00:17:02,577
There's just a lot of, um...
240
00:17:03,373 --> 00:17:09,273
Fighting. Physical. Just, uh...
there's a male and a female, and...
241
00:17:13,643 --> 00:17:16,212
Lee-Ann's night manager
also had an experience.
242
00:17:16,212 --> 00:17:20,448
And apparently, it really freaked him out.
243
00:17:20,446 --> 00:17:22,581
Ben, thanks for meeting with me.
244
00:17:22,580 --> 00:17:24,248
So you had an experience here.
245
00:17:24,248 --> 00:17:26,715
- Yes.
- What room is this?
246
00:17:26,715 --> 00:17:28,583
This is The Master Bedroom.
247
00:17:28,583 --> 00:17:32,053
This is the room where Andrew and Abby
Borden slept when they lived here.
248
00:17:32,051 --> 00:17:33,859
Okay, so what happened?
249
00:17:33,859 --> 00:17:36,403
Well, I was sitting on the
bed, reading a magazine,
250
00:17:36,402 --> 00:17:42,302
and it was about 2:00 in the morning, and I
saw a shadow move across the door frame.
251
00:17:43,492 --> 00:17:47,219
And a couple minutes later,
I saw the same exact thing.
252
00:17:47,217 --> 00:17:50,873
And a few minutes later, I saw it again...
253
00:17:50,872 --> 00:17:52,776
This tall...
254
00:17:52,776 --> 00:17:54,820
Black mass...
255
00:17:54,820 --> 00:17:57,428
And it moved all the way across the wall.
256
00:17:57,427 --> 00:18:00,667
And it just disappeared.
257
00:18:01,726 --> 00:18:04,649
It felt like it was someone...
258
00:18:04,648 --> 00:18:07,897
Watching me, someone coming up here
to check out what was going on.
259
00:18:07,896 --> 00:18:12,867
And I just immediately got the
impression it was Mr. Borden.
260
00:18:12,865 --> 00:18:15,069
I was scared.
261
00:18:15,068 --> 00:18:16,728
(Exhales deeply)
262
00:18:16,728 --> 00:18:19,406
The man smacking the woman.
263
00:18:19,406 --> 00:18:20,935
Man...
264
00:18:20,935 --> 00:18:23,003
Like [Bleep]. Like... (Makes whoosh sound)
265
00:18:23,002 --> 00:18:25,103
And she's pretty small.
266
00:18:25,103 --> 00:18:27,863
He's pretty big.
267
00:18:28,145 --> 00:18:31,780
Like, you could just... you can
see, like, her whole face like...
268
00:18:31,779 --> 00:18:36,298
You know what I mean? Like, he smacked, and
you can just, like, feel, like, the...
269
00:18:36,296 --> 00:18:38,545
Like, I mean, really pounding on her.
270
00:18:38,544 --> 00:18:41,247
Like, pulling her hair. Like...
271
00:18:41,246 --> 00:18:43,557
Just really nasty.
272
00:18:43,557 --> 00:18:48,275
Like, just, like, beating
the crap out of her.
273
00:18:48,273 --> 00:18:50,371
(Woman wails)
274
00:18:50,371 --> 00:18:53,011
(Exhales deeply)
275
00:18:53,946 --> 00:18:55,347
Who is it?
276
00:18:55,347 --> 00:18:57,757
(Exhales deeply)
277
00:18:57,757 --> 00:19:01,117
I think it's the father.
278
00:19:18,809 --> 00:19:21,398
Just really nasty.
279
00:19:21,397 --> 00:19:25,726
Like, just, like, beating
the crap out of her.
280
00:19:25,725 --> 00:19:28,185
(Woman wails)
281
00:19:28,482 --> 00:19:31,122
(Exhales deeply)
282
00:19:32,033 --> 00:19:33,501
Who is it?
283
00:19:33,501 --> 00:19:35,535
(Exhales deeply)
284
00:19:35,534 --> 00:19:38,894
I think it's the father.
285
00:19:39,569 --> 00:19:42,385
Three witnesses have
seen tall, Dark Shadows.
286
00:19:42,384 --> 00:19:46,173
And Ben is convinced that it's Mr. Borden.
287
00:19:46,171 --> 00:19:50,055
I don't like chasing shadows.
That's all I've got right now.
288
00:19:50,054 --> 00:19:52,184
I need to find out more about Mr. Borden.
289
00:19:52,184 --> 00:19:54,408
Why somebody would take
a hatched to his head,
290
00:19:54,407 --> 00:19:56,409
and if it has any connection
to what's happening
291
00:19:56,409 --> 00:20:01,329
in this house more than
a hundred years later.
292
00:20:08,712 --> 00:20:11,314
I understand you know a lot
about the Borden family.
293
00:20:11,313 --> 00:20:13,448
What do you know about Mr. Borden?
294
00:20:13,448 --> 00:20:18,979
Mr. Borden was 5-foot-10. He
was a very thin, angular man.
295
00:20:18,976 --> 00:20:21,203
He was a creature of
habit and had a certain
296
00:20:21,203 --> 00:20:23,813
routine that he
would do every day.
297
00:20:23,812 --> 00:20:26,480
And that was post office, bank.
298
00:20:26,479 --> 00:20:29,782
He was on the board of
several Mills and Banks.
299
00:20:29,781 --> 00:20:34,461
He was pretty ruthless. He was a tough nut.
300
00:20:42,484 --> 00:20:45,554
Um, I see, like, banking.
301
00:20:45,553 --> 00:20:49,993
I think he was into Banking and numbers.
302
00:20:50,233 --> 00:20:53,533
Like, him going to work.
303
00:20:53,856 --> 00:20:56,796
Banking and numbers.
304
00:20:58,508 --> 00:21:01,268
What's going on?
305
00:21:10,328 --> 00:21:13,868
Well, I'm hearing a female.
306
00:21:14,395 --> 00:21:17,215
And she's like...
307
00:21:20,025 --> 00:21:22,467
Stressed out. She's, like, tired.
308
00:21:22,466 --> 00:21:24,500
Like...
309
00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:26,935
Doesn't wanna...
310
00:21:26,934 --> 00:21:29,133
Deal with anything anymore.
311
00:21:29,133 --> 00:21:32,571
She's got dark hair. She's kind of petite.
312
00:21:32,569 --> 00:21:36,772
Uh, but she's got, like, a full build.
Like, a full... she's, like...
313
00:21:36,771 --> 00:21:38,704
Stocky, I guess?
314
00:21:38,704 --> 00:21:40,684
And...
315
00:21:41,072 --> 00:21:43,106
Her hair's all frazzled.
316
00:21:43,106 --> 00:21:48,266
Like, it's done up but
it's, like, all frazzled.
317
00:21:50,475 --> 00:21:53,249
Did Lizzie Borden do these murders?
318
00:21:53,248 --> 00:21:55,001
I think she did.
319
00:21:55,001 --> 00:21:56,790
Why do you think that?
320
00:21:56,790 --> 00:21:58,495
Money, and lots of it.
321
00:21:58,495 --> 00:22:00,612
It's easy to make a case for her guilt.
322
00:22:00,611 --> 00:22:04,871
Lizzie has no alibi for either murder.
323
00:22:07,648 --> 00:22:10,168
(Wind howling)
324
00:22:15,838 --> 00:22:19,618
Again, like, a lot of beatings.
325
00:22:19,953 --> 00:22:22,713
Lots of beatings.
326
00:22:29,722 --> 00:22:32,123
Lots of beatings.
327
00:22:32,123 --> 00:22:35,760
There's, like, rape and rape.
328
00:22:35,759 --> 00:22:38,000
Uh... people being tied up.
329
00:22:37,999 --> 00:22:41,179
(Voice echoes) Tied up.
330
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,840
(Heartbeat thumping)
331
00:22:46,895 --> 00:22:49,655
There was incest.
332
00:23:13,092 --> 00:23:16,090
Historians and legal experts have
spent the last hundred years,
333
00:23:16,089 --> 00:23:17,734
trying to solve the Borden murders.
334
00:23:17,734 --> 00:23:20,432
And I don't expect to figure it out today.
335
00:23:20,432 --> 00:23:23,180
But if I can find out why
Mr. Borden was murdered.
336
00:23:23,179 --> 00:23:26,834
Maybe I can figure out why Lee-Ann's
staff thinks he's still at the house.
337
00:23:26,832 --> 00:23:30,233
(Doorbell rings, door creaks)
338
00:23:30,232 --> 00:23:32,332
(Creaks)
339
00:23:41,402 --> 00:23:43,906
This was obviously a major crime here.
340
00:23:43,905 --> 00:23:44,969
It was.
341
00:23:44,970 --> 00:23:49,809
At the time, do you know if, uh,
murder was common in the area?
342
00:23:49,807 --> 00:23:52,442
There certainly were murders in Fall River.
343
00:23:52,441 --> 00:23:56,189
Um, what was unusual about this was that,
344
00:23:56,187 --> 00:24:01,713
you had a prominent elderly gentleman
and his wife slaughtered in their home.
345
00:24:01,711 --> 00:24:05,146
And you had a daughter who was suspect.
346
00:24:05,145 --> 00:24:08,292
Did anyone try to come
after Mr. Borden before?
347
00:24:08,291 --> 00:24:11,032
Well, it's certainly possible
because someone got into the house
348
00:24:11,031 --> 00:24:13,170
shortly before the murders
and took some things,
349
00:24:13,169 --> 00:24:16,450
and Andrew Borden did have three
locks on the front door of his home.
350
00:24:16,449 --> 00:24:18,783
Okay, so there had been a
burglary at the house.
351
00:24:18,783 --> 00:24:20,643
Yes.
352
00:24:27,185 --> 00:24:30,065
(Heartbeat thumping)
353
00:24:30,354 --> 00:24:33,114
There was incest.
354
00:24:34,625 --> 00:24:36,665
Incest.
355
00:24:36,798 --> 00:24:39,438
Crying, yelling.
356
00:24:43,314 --> 00:24:48,223
And, like, really bad,
like, harmful, hurtful...
357
00:24:48,221 --> 00:24:49,612
Painful...
358
00:24:49,612 --> 00:24:51,472
Sex.
359
00:24:52,173 --> 00:24:55,436
Really, really nasty stuff, really.
360
00:24:55,435 --> 00:24:58,135
It's disgusting.
361
00:25:04,232 --> 00:25:08,135
Everyone in this town has a
strong opinion about Mr. Borden.
362
00:25:08,134 --> 00:25:12,804
I need to do my own research about
his family and the murders.
363
00:25:12,802 --> 00:25:18,649
I also need to see if I can find
documentation on a rumor I once heard.
364
00:25:18,646 --> 00:25:21,335
It's well-known that in
1892, Mr. Borden and
365
00:25:21,334 --> 00:25:23,907
his wife were found in
their home, murdered.
366
00:25:23,907 --> 00:25:27,541
Their heads brutally
caved in with a hatchet.
367
00:25:27,539 --> 00:25:30,800
Lizzie became the key suspect.
368
00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:32,883
She went to trial.
369
00:25:32,883 --> 00:25:35,999
After 26 days, she was acquitted.
370
00:25:35,998 --> 00:25:39,355
Some say she got away with a double murder.
371
00:25:39,354 --> 00:25:41,094
I find what I've been looking for...
372
00:25:41,094 --> 00:25:43,873
A paper written by a psychologist in 1997,
373
00:25:43,872 --> 00:25:48,567
speculating that the Bordens'
murderer was sexually molested.
374
00:25:48,565 --> 00:25:52,006
And destroyed the eyes and faces
of those who victimized her.
375
00:25:52,004 --> 00:25:55,727
So they couldn't see the monster
she felt she had become.
376
00:25:55,726 --> 00:26:00,224
In other words, Lizzie killed her
father because her father molested her.
377
00:26:00,222 --> 00:26:02,772
That paper was published 15 years ago.
378
00:26:02,771 --> 00:26:05,089
So I'm headed to meet with an
expert on the criminal mind,
379
00:26:05,089 --> 00:26:09,349
to see what she has to say about it.
380
00:26:12,064 --> 00:26:13,950
Professor, thanks for meeting with me.
381
00:26:13,950 --> 00:26:19,498
I wanted to talk to you about why Lizzie
Borden may have killed her father.
382
00:26:19,496 --> 00:26:23,276
I have some crime scene photos.
383
00:26:28,904 --> 00:26:34,664
Now do you see the same rage
that I see in these photos?
384
00:26:35,264 --> 00:26:39,644
I don't see some guy coming in
to do a burglary and doing that.
385
00:26:39,643 --> 00:26:42,244
I've had experience with
sexual abuse cases,
386
00:26:42,243 --> 00:26:44,313
and I wanted to get your
professional opinion
387
00:26:44,313 --> 00:26:46,963
that that might've been
what as going on here.
388
00:26:46,962 --> 00:26:49,631
The thing with sexual abuse trauma...
389
00:26:49,630 --> 00:26:53,682
Is that, um, you're not gonna
have immediate reaction...
390
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,847
To your perpetrator.
391
00:26:55,847 --> 00:26:59,722
You know, you're gonna sit with that,
and it's gonna boil and boil and boil.
392
00:26:59,721 --> 00:27:03,463
If her father were abusing her.
393
00:27:03,461 --> 00:27:07,155
That kind of reaction
would be quite normal.
394
00:27:07,154 --> 00:27:09,253
To just...
395
00:27:09,252 --> 00:27:11,962
Lash out in anger.
396
00:27:11,962 --> 00:27:15,982
And kill them in a very ugly way.
397
00:27:16,221 --> 00:27:21,741
Her father would... he'd be
a good suspect for incest.
398
00:27:26,658 --> 00:27:29,178
(Wind howling)
399
00:27:30,726 --> 00:27:33,246
(Clock chimes)
400
00:27:47,951 --> 00:27:49,811
Mph.
401
00:27:50,566 --> 00:27:54,890
No. I kind of... I have another
thing that happened, in my head.
402
00:27:54,888 --> 00:27:56,823
Um, that...
403
00:27:56,823 --> 00:28:02,343
Uh, there's a lot of, like,
dirty, dirty sex in here.
404
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,129
What is it?
405
00:28:11,129 --> 00:28:14,531
Well, I'm getting, like, sisters...
406
00:28:14,530 --> 00:28:18,490
Sisters that did... stuff together.
407
00:28:20,648 --> 00:28:22,789
- Okay.
- (Whispers) Sex.
408
00:28:22,789 --> 00:28:24,339
- To each other?
- Yeah.
409
00:28:24,339 --> 00:28:26,670
- To... okay.
- (Normal voice) Yeah.
410
00:28:26,669 --> 00:28:31,949
So they're sisters and
they're having sex together.
411
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,238
I need to find out if sexual abuse
came up as a defense during the trial.
412
00:28:38,237 --> 00:28:44,137
So I'm going to meet with the expert
on the Lizzie Borden court case.
413
00:28:49,061 --> 00:28:53,332
Let me ask you something. Were there any
other suspects in Mr. Borden's murder?
414
00:28:53,330 --> 00:28:55,087
Um, he had enemies.
415
00:28:55,087 --> 00:28:58,751
He was a... he was rather
ruthless in business.
416
00:28:58,749 --> 00:29:01,733
Anything come up about
possible sexual abuse?
417
00:29:01,733 --> 00:29:05,094
Was that ever brought up at trial?
418
00:29:05,092 --> 00:29:06,794
That's been a theory.
419
00:29:06,794 --> 00:29:09,644
But there was no sexual abuse introduced.
420
00:29:09,643 --> 00:29:12,070
Was there any other evidence
that wasn't brought up?
421
00:29:12,070 --> 00:29:15,850
A lot of evidence was excluded.
422
00:29:17,805 --> 00:29:22,832
One of the judges had been appointed
by Lizzie's lead defense counsel,
423
00:29:22,830 --> 00:29:25,491
who was the former
Governor of Massachusetts.
424
00:29:25,490 --> 00:29:27,850
- Which is a conflict of interest.
- Yeah.
425
00:29:27,850 --> 00:29:30,276
Frank, you're the foremost expert
on the Lizzie Borden trial.
426
00:29:30,275 --> 00:29:32,511
- So I gotta ask the question.
- Yes?
427
00:29:32,511 --> 00:29:35,235
Do you think Lizzie did these murders?
428
00:29:35,234 --> 00:29:39,252
Is there proof beyond a reasonable doubt?
I think... I think there is.
429
00:29:39,250 --> 00:29:45,150
- If this murder took place today...
- I think she'd have been convicted.
430
00:29:58,161 --> 00:30:00,928
She had kind of a large,
431
00:30:00,927 --> 00:30:04,162
round but square kind of face.
432
00:30:04,161 --> 00:30:06,081
Okay.
433
00:30:06,223 --> 00:30:08,566
She was a little...
434
00:30:08,565 --> 00:30:10,905
Um, stocky.
435
00:30:11,025 --> 00:30:16,005
She had almond-shaped
eyes, but they were wide.
436
00:30:16,059 --> 00:30:17,251
How old?
437
00:30:17,252 --> 00:30:20,432
Late 40s or early 50s.
438
00:30:23,561 --> 00:30:27,401
And she has, uh, thick eyebrows.
439
00:30:28,297 --> 00:30:30,397
Uh, her nose...
440
00:30:30,397 --> 00:30:32,551
Was kind of, like, thinner up here.
441
00:30:32,551 --> 00:30:34,124
Straight.
442
00:30:34,124 --> 00:30:38,984
Um, but then it kind of,
like, is full here.
443
00:30:44,668 --> 00:30:47,583
Does this look like her?
444
00:30:47,582 --> 00:30:51,002
Yeah, that looks like her.
445
00:31:27,106 --> 00:31:29,142
Now that Amy and I have
finished our investigation,
446
00:31:29,142 --> 00:31:34,002
we finally get to hear
each other's findings.
447
00:31:34,510 --> 00:31:36,479
Well, it's good to see you guys again.
448
00:31:36,478 --> 00:31:39,843
Uh, Lee-Ann and Ben,
this is Amy, my partner.
449
00:31:39,842 --> 00:31:42,206
Lee-Ann owns the Lizzie Borden house.
450
00:31:42,206 --> 00:31:44,457
She runs it as a bed-and-breakfast.
451
00:31:44,456 --> 00:31:46,623
Uh, Ben's the night manager.
452
00:31:46,623 --> 00:31:52,523
Uh, and both of them have had
experiences that have freaked them out.
453
00:31:53,805 --> 00:31:59,705
Amy and I came in to do our investigation,
and the way we do it is independently.
454
00:32:00,901 --> 00:32:05,441
I do my investigation, as far as the
house goes and what I can find out.
455
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,491
Amy does her walk.
456
00:32:07,490 --> 00:32:09,674
This is the first time we're
actually seeing each other
457
00:32:09,674 --> 00:32:12,689
and talking to each other since the
beginning of the investigation.
458
00:32:12,688 --> 00:32:17,188
So, Amy, what did you find on your walk?
459
00:32:18,433 --> 00:32:21,788
Well, when I was doing my walk.
460
00:32:21,787 --> 00:32:26,844
Uh, one of the things that
happened in the living area...
461
00:32:26,842 --> 00:32:32,182
Was my guides were yelling
at me to move the couch.
462
00:32:33,739 --> 00:32:36,641
- Do you wanna move it?
- Yeah.
463
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,860
(Scraping)
464
00:32:40,285 --> 00:32:44,245
There's a Ouija Board under here.
465
00:32:45,876 --> 00:32:48,636
That's not good.
466
00:32:48,685 --> 00:32:51,381
My spirit guides will
lead me through my walks
467
00:32:51,380 --> 00:32:55,393
and give me information
when no one else will.
468
00:32:55,391 --> 00:32:59,584
And so all I hear is, move it!
Move it! Move it! Move it!
469
00:32:59,582 --> 00:33:04,382
And there was a Ouija
Board under the couch.
470
00:33:04,866 --> 00:33:09,344
This one has a problem. The
dead are tired of being...
471
00:33:09,342 --> 00:33:11,922
Contacted here.
472
00:33:12,086 --> 00:33:16,693
I would recommend you remove this
one simply because the dead,
473
00:33:16,691 --> 00:33:19,676
here are having issues with it.
474
00:33:19,675 --> 00:33:24,328
Sometimes when I'm doing my
evening hosting with the guests,
475
00:33:24,326 --> 00:33:26,770
I will take the Ouija Board and I will...
476
00:33:26,770 --> 00:33:29,650
Hide it from them.
477
00:33:30,228 --> 00:33:33,348
I'm not anti-Ouija...
478
00:33:33,486 --> 00:33:37,686
But, they're... they're tired of it.
479
00:33:42,198 --> 00:33:47,778
The next thing that I encountered
was, uh, a nasty man.
480
00:33:49,334 --> 00:33:51,302
Fighting, physical. Just, uh...
481
00:33:51,302 --> 00:33:54,608
There's a male and a female and... mm.
482
00:33:54,607 --> 00:33:56,905
You know, and he is pretty big.
483
00:33:56,904 --> 00:33:59,205
Just really nasty.
484
00:33:59,205 --> 00:34:04,125
Like, just, like, beating
the crap out of her.
485
00:34:05,094 --> 00:34:06,454
He was a tall man.
486
00:34:06,454 --> 00:34:10,544
He was very, very angry, and he
was stressed out about his home.
487
00:34:10,543 --> 00:34:16,443
He was stressed out about his work,
which involved numbers and banks.
488
00:34:16,446 --> 00:34:20,066
Honestly, just a miserable, miserable man.
489
00:34:20,064 --> 00:34:22,748
- Mm.
- And took it out on...
490
00:34:22,748 --> 00:34:25,666
Everyone around him.
491
00:34:25,665 --> 00:34:29,505
I think it was Lizzie's father.
492
00:34:31,515 --> 00:34:34,218
Ben, why don't you tell
Amy about your story?
493
00:34:34,217 --> 00:34:39,857
Um, upstairs on the second
floor in The Master Bedroom...
494
00:34:41,286 --> 00:34:44,011
I was sleeping one night, and...
495
00:34:44,010 --> 00:34:47,407
Three different times I saw this tall...
496
00:34:47,406 --> 00:34:49,661
Black shadow.
497
00:34:49,660 --> 00:34:53,555
And it moved all the way across that wall.
498
00:34:53,554 --> 00:34:55,369
It was clear as day.
499
00:34:55,368 --> 00:34:59,628
I got the immediate feeling that he...
500
00:34:59,757 --> 00:35:04,197
Was a man and he was very overbearing...
501
00:35:04,329 --> 00:35:09,909
I just immediately got the
impression it was Mr. Borden.
502
00:35:10,229 --> 00:35:12,290
I talked to Shelly, who's a historian,
503
00:35:12,290 --> 00:35:16,268
and she told me, uh,
Mr. Borden was a tall man.
504
00:35:16,266 --> 00:35:17,628
He was lanky.
505
00:35:17,628 --> 00:35:22,556
He got into investment properties and
he lent people money, like a bank.
506
00:35:22,554 --> 00:35:24,469
He did... did pretty well for himself.
507
00:35:24,469 --> 00:35:27,400
Was the shadow Ben saw Mr. Borden?
508
00:35:27,399 --> 00:35:28,968
What you saw...
509
00:35:28,968 --> 00:35:32,088
Could possibly be him.
510
00:35:32,144 --> 00:35:37,409
(Amy) It could've been Mr. Borden that Ben
saw, but I think it was someone else...
511
00:35:37,406 --> 00:35:39,007
Or something else.
512
00:35:39,007 --> 00:35:42,063
And I don't think that Ben or Lee-Ann,
513
00:35:42,062 --> 00:35:45,602
are ready to hear that yet.
514
00:35:46,110 --> 00:35:52,010
So I then went into the kitchen, because
I heard two women talking in there.
515
00:35:52,361 --> 00:35:57,048
And when I went in there, I
actually saw one of the women.
516
00:35:57,046 --> 00:35:59,258
Her hair's all frazzled.
517
00:35:59,257 --> 00:36:02,897
Like, it's done up, but
it's, like, all frazzled.
518
00:36:02,896 --> 00:36:06,819
And, um, she doesn't want to
deal with anything anymore.
519
00:36:06,817 --> 00:36:11,785
Extreme stress, extreme panic,
and just really frazzled.
520
00:36:11,783 --> 00:36:13,945
- Now you did a sketch, right?
- Yeah, I did.
521
00:36:13,945 --> 00:36:15,865
Okay.
522
00:36:17,186 --> 00:36:19,288
Now this is the sketch from
the woman in the kitchen?
523
00:36:19,288 --> 00:36:21,148
Yes.
524
00:36:25,448 --> 00:36:27,319
It's...
525
00:36:27,319 --> 00:36:30,019
This is amazing.
526
00:36:52,100 --> 00:36:54,500
(Bell tolls)
527
00:36:56,535 --> 00:36:58,935
(Bell tolls)
528
00:37:04,571 --> 00:37:06,785
Now this is the sketch from
the woman in the kitchen?
529
00:37:06,784 --> 00:37:08,644
Yes.
530
00:37:13,563 --> 00:37:15,133
It's...
531
00:37:15,133 --> 00:37:17,833
This is amazing.
532
00:37:21,901 --> 00:37:25,213
Now during my investigation,
I was able to acquire,
533
00:37:25,211 --> 00:37:28,847
a very rare picture of Lizzie
Borden as an old woman.
534
00:37:28,846 --> 00:37:34,746
Uh, I want you guys to take a look
at this and tell me what you think.
535
00:37:42,501 --> 00:37:44,740
That's Lizzie Borden.
536
00:37:44,740 --> 00:37:49,112
What's going through your
head when you see it?
537
00:37:49,110 --> 00:37:50,820
It's unmistakable.
538
00:37:50,820 --> 00:37:52,290
(Lee-Ann) Uncanny.
539
00:37:52,290 --> 00:37:56,190
Same features, frizz in the hair.
540
00:37:58,371 --> 00:38:00,283
Um...
541
00:38:00,283 --> 00:38:01,716
What do you got?
542
00:38:01,716 --> 00:38:06,276
This is where it gets a little disturbing.
543
00:38:10,185 --> 00:38:11,553
What is it?
544
00:38:11,553 --> 00:38:14,888
Well, I'm getting, like, sisters...
545
00:38:14,887 --> 00:38:18,523
Sisters that did... stuff together.
546
00:38:18,522 --> 00:38:20,098
- To each other?
- (Whispers) Yeah.
547
00:38:20,098 --> 00:38:22,714
- To... okay.
- (Normal voice) Yeah.
548
00:38:22,713 --> 00:38:26,502
The second floor I did pick up on...
549
00:38:26,501 --> 00:38:28,541
Incest.
550
00:38:28,678 --> 00:38:31,412
But what I saw was...
551
00:38:31,412 --> 00:38:33,554
Two women.
552
00:38:33,553 --> 00:38:36,496
And I got that they were sisters.
553
00:38:36,495 --> 00:38:41,475
And that they were having
a sexual relationship.
554
00:38:42,025 --> 00:38:44,876
There was an older sister and
then the younger sister,
555
00:38:44,875 --> 00:38:47,966
and the older sister was
definitely the one who was...
556
00:38:47,965 --> 00:38:50,425
Orchestrating.
557
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:52,734
It's weird.
558
00:38:52,734 --> 00:38:58,108
I do believe that Mr. Borden
sexually abused his daughters.
559
00:38:58,105 --> 00:39:03,854
And this is the way the girls learned how
to show love and affection to each other.
560
00:39:03,852 --> 00:39:08,880
The more you learn about things, it
brings you to a conclusion for a case.
561
00:39:08,877 --> 00:39:14,092
When both parents were murdered, the
older sister got the inheritance.
562
00:39:14,090 --> 00:39:17,511
But she split it with Lizzie,
which she didn't have to do.
563
00:39:17,510 --> 00:39:19,911
Now on top of that, she
pays out of her money,
564
00:39:19,910 --> 00:39:23,589
the 25 grand for the
defense team for Lizzie.
565
00:39:23,588 --> 00:39:26,042
Could this be the scenario?
566
00:39:26,041 --> 00:39:29,981
Mr. Borden abuses his daughters,
and the stepmother does nothing.
567
00:39:29,980 --> 00:39:33,400
Two sisters plan a murder.
568
00:39:34,056 --> 00:39:38,194
They split the money and
move on with their lives.
569
00:39:38,192 --> 00:39:41,327
- Is it possible?
- Oh, yes.
570
00:39:41,326 --> 00:39:45,760
I think there were a lot of bad
things that happened here.
571
00:39:45,758 --> 00:39:48,752
And she was a victim.
572
00:39:48,751 --> 00:39:51,991
As well as a murderess.
573
00:39:53,863 --> 00:39:57,295
There's something else that
I encountered on my walk.
574
00:39:57,294 --> 00:40:00,423
When I went upstairs on the second floor.
575
00:40:00,422 --> 00:40:03,512
What I saw was a woman...
576
00:40:03,511 --> 00:40:08,332
And she was completely insane, and
she was crawling on the walls,
577
00:40:08,330 --> 00:40:10,626
scratching on the walls.
578
00:40:10,625 --> 00:40:13,023
Mph. This person...
579
00:40:13,023 --> 00:40:15,059
Is crazy.
580
00:40:15,058 --> 00:40:19,510
And... but she's over there.
She's, like, seeping out of the...
581
00:40:19,509 --> 00:40:20,933
Ceiling.
582
00:40:20,933 --> 00:40:24,643
- Amy, do you know who this woman is?
- I believe it's Lizzie Borden.
583
00:40:24,641 --> 00:40:28,713
But it's just one aspect
of her personality that...
584
00:40:28,712 --> 00:40:32,033
Um, is kind of stuck in...
585
00:40:32,031 --> 00:40:35,776
The emotional and mental state...
586
00:40:35,775 --> 00:40:38,986
Of being potentially abused.
587
00:40:38,985 --> 00:40:41,102
Not processing it.
588
00:40:41,102 --> 00:40:46,682
Um, and it's all kind of
accumulated into this, that...
589
00:40:48,234 --> 00:40:53,094
This aspect of her, broke
off, like shattered.
590
00:40:53,257 --> 00:40:57,523
And is in a place where everything began.
591
00:40:57,521 --> 00:41:01,283
The part of Lizzie Borden that I
saw was like a split personality.
592
00:41:01,281 --> 00:41:03,846
It was the part of her that
committed the murders.
593
00:41:03,846 --> 00:41:06,199
The part of her that went crazy.
594
00:41:06,198 --> 00:41:09,350
And when she died that part of
her returned to this house,
595
00:41:09,349 --> 00:41:11,234
because of what she did here.
596
00:41:11,234 --> 00:41:13,136
So if Mr. Borden is residual,
597
00:41:13,136 --> 00:41:17,303
is this crazy piece of Lizzie what's
tormenting everybody in the house?
598
00:41:17,301 --> 00:41:19,161
Yes.
599
00:41:19,281 --> 00:41:22,331
This fractured piece of Lizzie
can manipulate emotions,
600
00:41:22,330 --> 00:41:25,233
just like I think it did to Lee-Ann.
601
00:41:25,232 --> 00:41:28,738
But I can tell by the look on Lee-Ann's
face that she doesn't believe me.
602
00:41:28,737 --> 00:41:32,545
But I know what I saw, and I don't
think this is going to stop,
603
00:41:32,543 --> 00:41:35,379
until everyone here
really wants it to stop.
604
00:41:35,378 --> 00:41:39,089
So how's this all sinking in? I
mean, kinda blew me away tonight.
605
00:41:39,088 --> 00:41:41,371
It's just a shock to hear that.
606
00:41:41,370 --> 00:41:44,724
Ben and I will defiantly be
discussing quite a few of...
607
00:41:44,723 --> 00:41:48,056
Uh, many of the thing you've
said, long after you've left.
608
00:41:48,055 --> 00:41:53,243
I hope the information we brought you
guys, helps kind of clear things up.
609
00:41:53,241 --> 00:41:58,085
I'm glad to know, what's going on.
You know?
610
00:41:58,083 --> 00:42:00,749
People who come and have issues later,
611
00:42:00,748 --> 00:42:04,339
feel free to contact me, and
I'll help, I'll help them out.
612
00:42:04,338 --> 00:42:08,558
Call her if things start going...
a little wacky here.
613
00:42:08,556 --> 00:42:13,002
If anything major happens I
will, I will uh, call for help.
614
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,733
You know, thank you for that offer.
615
00:42:18,371 --> 00:42:24,271
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